Questions regarding more than 3 weapons per unit

Maximum · Post by **Maximum** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:29 pm

Before I post my question I just want to say really good job on TA3D thus far. I've been working on a TA Spring project but as Spring continues to go in odd directions and becomes more CPU/GPU hungry with each release I find myself alot more interrested in TA3D; which runs amazing on any system I've fired it up on.

In 1998-2000 I ran a site on TA Universe called TABDD and went by the handle Warped Mind, somewhat short lived due to hosting issues but I've kept all the stuff I've done and since improved it behind the scenes greatly to work in TA Spring (No public releases though) everything is still in 3do so thats primarly why, the TA Spring community is all about newer model formats and the like these days.

Anyway... long introduction over I guess.

Question to you guys. You've mentioned implimenting multiple weapons beyond TA's 3 in TA3D. Has this been done completely yet? In TA Spring I've got units with up to 6. Each one named "Weapon#=XXX;" in the FBI file. Yet they don't fire in TA3D, I've even disabled them from the FBI files to reduce it to 3 weapons but it almost seems like a problem with how TA3D interprets the COB file.

So the question breakes down to this: Have you guys implimented special cob definitions beyond the "Primary, Secondary, Tertiary".... or can TA3D read (like TA Spring) "Weapon1, Weapon2, Weapon3, Weapon4, etc" and its maybe my compiler. With some of my units that have up to 3 I've left them as Pri,Sec,Ter and they work fine... but others with more than 4 don't.

Also would it be possible to adopt similar FBI tags for things such as weapon firing direction and max firing angle off of that direction? TA Spring handles such things with these two tags:

WeaponMainDir# = -1 0 0; // Example, fires to left side.

Maxangledif#=90; // Example, fires 90 degree "cone" in whatever direction.

Both are very usefull for making multi-turreted ships, units and not having turrets on the sides overlap which also reduces having to hardcode the hardpoint directions in Cob doing excess calculations like in the WWII recreation ships mod. (name escapes me)

Other than that, really nice to see most of my units zip around in TA3D with the maps I made in Bryce years ago.

Keep up the great work guys.

Post by **zuzuf** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:27 pm

Thanks,

I am glad to see people like our work

Currently TA3D supports more than 3 weapons, it doesn't understand (yet) Weapon1,2,3 but reads Weapon4,5,6,... It calls COB functions using this pattern : Query%d, Aim%d, Fire%d where %d is the weapon number, but currently only if %d >= 4. Also this hasn't been tested until now

so it's great to have some feedback on it

, could you send us a few units with more than 3 weapons so we can make them work with TA3D ?

Balthazar · Post by **Balthazar** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:39 pm

Maximum - hurray! Nice to see one more experienced TA fan on this forum!!! Well, we haven`t tested more than 3 weapons per unit, like Zuzuf said, but mosty because we have lack of them

There are mostly programmers, not units maker among us, so if you`d like to help us - it will be great endeed!

Anyway, thanks for your support and best of luck

Maximum · Post by **Maximum** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:05 pm

Did some quick test while on supper break - working 2pm till 10pm this week so I'll try some more things later.

Changing the weapon#'s to Primary/Secondary/Tertiary in the script lets the unit fire like normal but only if the "weapon4's and higher" are deleted.

TA3D does appear to interpret having a 4th weapon because in the tests with the 4th weapon enabled in the Fbi and Cob file it causes the first primary weapon to shoot straight into the ground causing an explosion inside the units selection box. This effects both stationary and mobile units.

I'll whipup a simple test unit buildable by the Arm/Core commanders later and email it when I get a chance probably later on tonight along with the source files.

I'd send what I have but my package for the stuff I'm working on is 107 MB (un compressed) and includes everything needed to run TA3D without all the TA units info (Just the GUI and textures) so it loads in about 14 seconds.

Doors · Post by **Doors** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:57 am

Maximum wrote:
I'd send what I have but my package for the stuff I'm working on is 107 MB (un compressed) and includes everything needed to run TA3D without all the TA units info (Just the GUI and textures) so it loads in about 14 seconds.

I can host it if needed, I have room.

Maximum · Post by **Maximum** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:07 am

Thanks for emailing me about having the Weapon#'s working in the new version of TA3D.

Any word on possibly having Weapon direction and angle code in?

Also is the FBI tag. " healtime=x; " implimented properly yet? It was in TA origionally and is required for a small project I've been working on.

Keep up the great work, awaiting a new version to test.

Post by **zuzuf** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:50 pm

yes, HealTime is implemented (beware that FBI variables seem to be case sensitive ... at least it's better to respect the case even if it may work without because it defines some strange priorities between variables...)

as far as weapon direction and angle is concerned, what is the right case for those variables and what do they do exactly ? (are they in TA angle unit, degrees, radians, ... ? interaction with scripts ...).

Maximum · Post by **Maximum** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:23 pm

Ah good to hear healtime is working, I'll have to recheck my FBI files later.

The two tags interact with the script (cob) aiming and limit it to a certain direction and angle.

"For instance, if you want your Primary Weapon to have a 90° fire arc forward, you'd write: WeaponMainDir1=0 0 1;//x:0 y:0 z:1 => that's forward! MaxAngleDif1=90;//90° from side to side, or 45° from center to each direction." - Quote from another person in the TA Spring forums.

Maxangledif#=XXX; <- looks like this in the FBI.

Its usefull because instead of doing calculations in the Cob file you can simply use a tagline in the FBI file and your weapon fires in the right directions. If you were doing a WWI mod this could be usefull for having a turret thats inside the hull of the tank and can only fire with an arc in a forward direction or to make ships with broadside abilities, what specifies the direction; why the next tagline of course.

WeaponMainDir#= x# y# z#;

3 numbers:
First number: 1(left) or -1(right) or 0(no preference) specify if the turret fires to the left or right only.
Second number: Usually 0 in TA Spring, specifies if the unit can only fire up or down if set to 1 or -1.
Third number: 1(forward firing) or -1(backward firing) or 0(no preference)

Example:
WeaponMainDir1 = 0 0 1; // Forward Only
WeaponMainDir2= -1 0 0; // Right Only
WeaponMainDir3= 1 0 0; // Left Only
WeaponMainDir4= 0 0 -1; // Back Only

Hopefully that explains it a bit better.

Post by **zuzuf** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:52 pm

Ok, I'll implement that this week end (currently I am a bit busy).

Maximum · Post by **Maximum** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:38 pm

Awesome to hear, can't wait.

Post by **zuzuf** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:27 pm

I've implemented this in r1272, I didn't test it and I don't know if it behaves the way you expect it to. You can already test it, feedback will be appreciated

Maximum · Post by **Maximum** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:00 pm

Have a link to the win32 SVN test build by any chance?

Post by **zuzuf** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:53 pm

I am afraid you'll have to build it by yourself or wait until I come back home next week end (unless someone else is willing to build the code, maybe Doors ?).

Maximum · Post by **Maximum** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:25 am

Looks like I'll be waiting till then, not a problem I've got some stuff I've been working on.

Keep up the good work.

Doors · Post by **Doors** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:36 pm

zuzuf wrote:I am afraid you'll have to build it by yourself or wait until I come back home next week end (unless someone else is willing to build the code, maybe Doors ?).

An open door is needed?

Provided.

Grab the test 8 game demo then the R1273 updated binaries.
extract the update to the demo directory and have fun.
The binaries are set to use local directories not the ones buried in the profile that can never be found.
Debug information not stripped just in case someone has a working debugger they want to use.

http://ta3d.freedoors.org/Demo/Ta3d%200.5.0-T8.exe

http://ta3d.freedoors.org/Demo/Ta3d-R1273.rar

[Edited to fix filename glitch]

If it is popular I can do updates to keep the R1273 more or less up to date as the numbers progress in between test releases.

P.S. - Zuzuf - the libfmodex.a needs to move from the static directory for mingw32 to the libs. It is not found where it is now.

Post by **zuzuf** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:38 pm

I've created a ticket

Balthazar · Post by **Balthazar** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:30 am

Doors wrote:
An open door is needed?

Provided.

Doors, you are DA BEST

Doors · Post by **Doors** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:43 am

Balthazar wrote:
Doors wrote:
An open door is needed?

Provided.
Doors, you are DA BEST :D

I take it it worked OK then?

Balthazar · Post by **Balthazar** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:21 am

Yeah, it worked fine. but I`ve got a few suggestions:

1. Duuno why but buildmenu icons are strange - wrong buildings and OLIMPUS!!!! Duuno how did it get there O_O I`ll do more test at home today.

2. There should be exactly version number (track source version) in the main menu in upper left corner.

3. ta3d.log and screenshots should be stored in /ta3d/ folder, exactly like Doors did - it`s a hella more comfortable than to search them in /doc&sett/app/...blahblahblah...

Doors · Post by **Doors** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:43 am

Balthazar wrote:Yeah, it worked fine. but I`ve got a few suggestions:

1. Duuno why but buildmenu icons are strange - wrong buildings and OLIMPUS!!!! Duuno how did it get there O_O I`ll do more test at home today.

2. There should be exactly version number (track source version) in the main menu in upper left corner.

3. ta3d.log and screenshots should be stored in /ta3d/ folder, exactly like Doors did - it`s a hella more comfortable than to search them in /doc&sett/app/...blahblahblah...

1.) If you used my test 8 package it is probably something I haven't been able to workaround yet so be sure to test with the proper resources before thinking there is a problem.

2.) Out of my league in C/C++ but I like the idea.

3.) Thats why i did my hack, I hate searching through all the garbage MS puts in their. Besides if you want to program a game correctly then uninstaling that game should be just delete the directory, using the profile stuff just adds complexity where it is not needed by scattering files hither and thither.

If anyone cares I can post the exact source I compiled for R1273

I do a lot of recovery work on crashed windows machines, let me tell you the worst thing about windows is how many directories it blends to make the menus. I think the only reason it survives is because of inertia, as soon as Reactos is stable enough, I am so done with Mswin anything.

Balthazar · Post by **Balthazar** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:25 pm

1.) If you used my test 8 package it is probably something I haven't been able to workaround yet so be sure to test with the proper resources before thinking there is a problem.

No, I`ve used Zuzuf`s Test 9 and replace ta3d.exe and 3dmeditor with yours from R1273. Your Test 8 package is too big (108mb) for me to download it every time, since I`m always have neccesary set of resources in /resource/ folder. Doors, can you provide separate TA3D build and TA3D Demo resources so people could download them only if needed?

I`ve test R1273 at home and don`t find any problems with buildmenus. All seems fine and fast.

But the bug, I metioned earlier is still there - if during the game press Esc button and bring up `Esc menu` - game pausing and didn`t return to normal, even if `Esc menu` is closed.

Post by **zuzuf** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:12 pm

you have to manually unpause the game ... seems not obvious

in the ESC menu you should have a button "resume game" or something like that (I don't remember exactly since I mainly see it in French

)

Balthazar · Post by **Balthazar** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:45 am

zuzuf - it`s funny, but you are right

There is such a button - resume the game. Maybe we should switch places Resume Game and Return to Game buttons, since I wasn`t able to figure the cause till now (and it was quite a long time, must I say )

Doors can you provide a link to full new ta3d build WITHOUT TA resources?

Post by **zuzuf** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:38 pm

Yeah the way it works is not obvious ... I couldn't even figure out why it didn't work since I thought you clicked the button actually.

Maybe we should change the pause behavior. I propose:
1) showing ESC menu sets pause, leaving the menu unset pause

or
2) showing/leaving ESC menu doesn't set/unset pause but this is done through a dedicated button in the ESC menu.

What do you think would be the best ?
I think 2) is better for multiplayer if we add other functions to that menu that don't affect game sync but 1) would be better for single player games, so that you can just press ESC to pause/unpause the game.

reacting to event on the "pause" key could be great too ?

Doors · Post by **Doors** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:43 pm

Balthazar wrote:Doors can you provide a link to full new ta3d build WITHOUT TA resources?

Who me? neglect to open a door? well OK a dutch door maybe but here.

http://ta3d.freedoors.org/Demo/Ta3d-R1273.exe

Installs just like test 8 package except to games\ta3d-R1273

http://ta3d.freedoors.org/Demo/Ta3d-R1273.rar

Is still just the exe's for those who want that.
I can do both with and without resources if desired. Then do updates tagged by cvs build number.

Doors · Post by **Doors** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:47 pm

zuzuf wrote:Yeah the way it works is not obvious ... I couldn't even figure out why it didn't work since I thought you clicked the button actually.

Maybe we should change the pause behavior. I propose:
1) showing ESC menu sets pause, leaving the menu unset pause

or
2) showing/leaving ESC menu doesn't set/unset pause but this is done through a dedicated button in the ESC menu.

What do you think would be the best ?
I think 2) is better for multiplayer if we add other functions to that menu that don't affect game sync but 1) would be better for single player games, so that you can just press ESC to pause/unpause the game.

reacting to event on the "pause" key could be great too ?

I don't know the feasibility but it would seem ideal to have escape pause the game immediately in single player mode.

In multi one player hitting it would pop it up on all screens, if everyone hits pause then the game pauses.
Not sure how to do game resume after that but atleast then everyone would have a say, since IM stuff is going to be included eventually as I understand it perhaps it could tie in somewhere around that.

Balthazar · Post by **Balthazar** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:11 pm

Doors - thanks for the packages!

Zuzuf - Doors right, the best way is to have two different menus - for singleplayer and multiplayer.

If to chose one of two - then definately the second one. What about behaviour of buttons - just copy it from Starcraft - each player can set pause for 3 times per game, and any other player can resume it. That`s the way it should be done and I can say that it is really works how it should in Starcraft.

Maximum · Post by **Maximum** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:25 am

Thanks for compiling the newest SVN Doors, makes testing easier.

More than 3 weapons per unit works fine.

I tested WeaponMainDir#=x; and Maxangledif#x; and they don't seem to do anything.

But atleast more than 3 weapons works, nice work Zuzuf

Balthazar · Post by **Balthazar** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:50 am

Maximum- our avatars together looks kinda retarded

Post by **zuzuf** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:13 am

I don't like the idea to popup the ESC menu on all clients : what if you're giving orders to some units when the menu pops up and by accident you click some button ?

I like the way starcraft handles this, we can only sync pause/unpause mechanism and add a pause limit per player so you don't have to wait for someone to unpause the game. I'd be as easy as adding a "game paused" text in the middle of the screen and an instruction in the game sync protocol to pause/unpause the game (ie: PAUSE and UNPAUSE ?)

Balthazar · Post by **Balthazar** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:59 pm

Agreed

Doors · Post by **Doors** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:04 pm

zuzuf wrote:I don't like the idea to popup the ESC menu on all clients : what if you're giving orders to some units when the menu pops up and by accident you click some button ?

I like the way starcraft handles this, we can only sync pause/unpause mechanism and add a pause limit per player so you don't have to wait for someone to unpause the game. I'd be as easy as adding a "game paused" text in the middle of the screen and an instruction in the game sync protocol to pause/unpause the game (ie: PAUSE and UNPAUSE ?)

Since I have never played nor seen starcraft I will take your words for it.

Maybe to you can let someone be scripting while paused then synced when unpaused? Just a thought.

I am not a heavy gamer so my experience with a variety of games is limited.

Post by **zuzuf** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:46 am

pausing the game simulation doesn't pause the game interface, so you can still give orders to your units if that's what you mean by scripting

Maximum · Post by **Maximum** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:56 am

Fired up the new version, really liking the new fast loadtimes.

For WeaponMainDir#=x y z; what is TA3D looking for as far as this tag goes to get it to become active? All my tests have failed to give any results regardless if I typed it in all caps, no caps and just like I've posted here with a mix of both.

Would it be possible to add the right/left click interface option into TA3D? Total Annihilation had the ability to switch it in the options menu and it was handy for "Blizzard RTS" converts.

Post by **zuzuf** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:33 am

OMG ! There is a bug in the FBI parser ... it starts counting from 0 instead of 1 for MainWeaponDir#

as far as clicking interface is concerned we'll add that option

TA3D

Questions regarding more than 3 weapons per unit

Questions regarding more than 3 weapons per unit

Tests...

Re: Tests...

Thanks Doors

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